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Musings on God, friendship, relationships

Ron Belgau, in a screenshot from a lecture on marriage, the church, and . The heterosexual youth fooled around at a rate that was not easily. But as Ron Belgau pointed out this winter, whole theologies can be built Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons is still. BlogsHomosexuality Fri Jul 6, - pm EST Ron Belgau, cofounder with Wesley Hill of the Spiritual Friendship blog, does not condone gay At any rate, although I have extraordinarily vivid memories of this particular evening, I don't.

I received the other day a very thoughtful letter from Ron Belgau, a founder of the Spiritual Friendship movement, which is for gay Christians living celibately, in obedience to the teachings of the faith. I print it here with his permission. Although some of your other responses—like the email from Chris Roberts and the piece on the cost of the divorce culture —addressed some of my concerns, I think it would be helpful to explain my worries about your response in more depth.

In the first place, I was surprised by this post because, when I read The Benedict OptionI Ron belgau homosexuality statistics particularly impressed with your analysis of the sexual revolution in Chapter 9.

You made clear that we need to recover a distinctly Christian way of thinking about sexuality and living in sexual purity. Your whole book is about how we Ron belgau homosexuality statistics to stand apart from the anti-Christian ethos of modern culture, and do better at building community practices that enable us pass on the faith, catechize, and keep us from turning into moralistic therapeutic Deists.

The first—which I understood you to be advocating in The Benedict Option —is a repentance which recognizes that we have been drawn away from God and into worldly ways of thinking. We need the purification that can Ron belgau homosexuality statistics come through asceticism, and so we seek the encouragement and accountability of other Christians to be faithful Ron belgau homosexuality statistics to pass on the faith.

The Ron belgau homosexuality statistics Statement falls pretty clearly into the second category. Will the church of the Lord Jesus Christ lose her biblical conviction, clarity, and courage, and blend into the spirit of the age?

Or will she hold fast to the word of life, draw courage from Jesus, and unashamedly proclaim his way as the way of life? Will she maintain her clear, counter-cultural witness to a world that seems bent on ruin? The answer to these questions, obviously, is that many churches have already lost their biblical conviction, clarity, and courage—especially regarding sex. However, in the historical account implicit in the Nashville Statement, none of that ever happened. The church is beset by the culture, yes, but still standing Ron belgau homosexuality statistics, and the only question is whether our heroes will continue to stand firm or will cave before the homosexual and transgender onslaught.

And yet, the statement itself abandons biblical Ron belgau homosexuality statistics, courage, and conviction on a wide range of other challenges to the sanctity of marriage. Many deny that God created human beings for his glory, and that his good purposes for us include our personal and physical design as male and female. However, the New Testament passages which show this most clearly are Matthew And this is not because divorce and remarriage after divorce are not serious challenges in the churches the signers of the Nashville Statement represent.

I understand, as you point out, that it would be very difficult to get widespread agreement from the signers of the Nashville Statement on what the virtue of chastity demands on a variety of sexual issues other than homosexuality and Ron belgau homosexuality statistics. But simply to write that is to write Ron belgau homosexuality statistics reasonably damning I do not use the word casually indictment of the state of American Christianity.

Americans accepted gay marriage so quickly because it resonated with what they had already come to believe about the meaning of heterosexual sex and marriage. We have gay marriage because the straight majority came to see sexuality as something primarily for personal pleasure and self-expression and only secondarily for procreation. We have gay marriage because the straight majority, in turn, came to see marriage in the same way—and two generations of Americans have grown up with these nominalist values on sex and marriage as normative.

Given how clearly you drew the link between these past failures and the current fights about sexual orientation and gender identity in The Benedict Optionit surprises me Ron belgau homosexuality statistics you defend the Nashville Statement, despite its silence on no-fault divorce and other offenses against the sanctity of marriage which have become acceptable even if still viewed with some concern within conservative Christian culture.

In The Benedict Optionyou wrote:. Tying the gay rights cause to the civil rights movement was a strategic masterstroke. Though homosexuality and race are two very different phenomena, the media took the equivalence for granted and rarely Ron belgau homosexuality statistics ever gave opposing voices a chance to be heard.

However, this move was made plausible by Christians who decided to single Ron belgau homosexuality statistics gay people for unique shaming and condemnation, while ignoring heterosexual sin.

The heterosexual youth fooled around at Ron belgau homosexuality statistics rate that was not easily distinguishable from that of the unchurched boys and girls at the local schools, and the adults pretended not to notice. When I was in college, I briefly attended Rev. Rush Limbaugh never gave up on the institution of marriage.

In all the years I was a member, my evangelical church made exactly one argument about SSM. Being gay is icky, and the people who Ron belgau homosexuality statistics gay are the worst kind of sinner you can be. Period, done, amen, pass the casserole.

Many who grew up in Christian homes think it because they heard it and saw it from the pulpit growing up. Like me, Justin grew up Southern Baptist.

However, the question actually rests on a misunderstanding. If I had, I would support same-sex marriage. Many of his arguments are modified versions of the arguments which I heard Ron belgau homosexuality statistics rationalize divorce and contraception in the Southern Baptist congregation I grew up in. And the reason they are unable to do this is both the acceptance of the heterosexual offenses against the sanctity of marriage which the Nashville Statement remains silent on, and the hostility toward gay people, including those trying to obey, which the Nashville Statement embodies.

This brings me to article 7 of the Nashville Statement. Like your Evangelical pastor friend, I suspect that the wording of article 7 was chosen Ron belgau homosexuality statistics exclude Spiritual Friendship.

Her public remarks about us also seriously misrepresented the Presbyterian Church in America and Reformed University Fellowship. All Spiritual Friendship writers support the belief that same sex sexual acts are sinful. All support the belief that same-sex lust is sinful. All would agree that the temptation to sexual acts or lust should be resisted.

But we are not Freudians. We do not believe that all attraction to a person of the same sex is reducible to sexual temptation or lust. If, as many have suggested, it turns out that the drafters of the Nashville Statement did, in fact, intend to exclude those at Spiritual Friendship, while remaining silent about straight Christians who have compromised on divorce and other aspects of the sexual revolution, that would only reinforce the argument that conservative Christians are not motivated by upholding what the Bible says about human sexuality, but rather by hostility toward gay people, including those who reject the sexual revolution and seek to live chaste lives.

You are an independent thinker, willing to speak out when others stay silent. You rightly called out the Catholic Bishops for their failure to address the abuse crisis when many other Catholic writers stayed silent. The Benedict Option is starting a necessary conversation for Christians who want to figure out how to remain remain orthodox in our increasingly secular culture. I began by saying that Ron belgau homosexuality statistics are two ways of turning away from the broader culture.

But your defense of the Nashville Statement, it seems to me, makes it easier for Christians to respond in the second, self-righteous way. I hope that you will continue to speak prophetically, as you have in the past, against the kind of self-satisfied Christian culture which cannot see its own complicity in the sexual revolution, and hence cannot preach a living faith either to the surrounding culture or within its own institutions.

Let me start my Ron belgau homosexuality statistics by thanking Ron for this great letter, and in particular for its spirit fo charity. My response is below. Forgive me, because it rambles. The first thing that came to mind when I read the letter is how very different my own experience of sexual teaching within church is.

I went to a Mainline Protestant church as a child and not very often at that. So, I think one gap in my understanding of how the Nashville Statement is received by others is that I never heard anybody disparage gays from the pulpit or in a church setting. My experience has, to the contrary, been that no priest or church leader aside from the Pope would talk about sexuality homo or hetero at all.

I recall with some bitterness still I regret to admit how back in the s, when I was a new convert and struggling mightily to be chaste, the Catholic Church in the form of parish priests left me all alone. Point is, Ron belgau homosexuality statistics only experience of sexuality as Ron belgau homosexuality statistics in parish churches minus books and papal encyclicals has been either total avoidance, or pro-gay boosterism.

I prefer the bold, if flawed, approach that the Nashville Statement Evangelicals take to the silence in the pulpit and public square of so many others. Hearing Ron belgau homosexuality statistics Ron had to go through Ron belgau homosexuality statistics up in church, and about things like what the Rev. Ken Hutcherson said about gays, not to mention his contemptible hypocrisy regarding heterosexual marriage when such allowed him to officiate at the fourth marriage of a celebrity Ron belgau homosexuality statistics well, I better understand why so many otherwise conservative Christians responded Ron belgau homosexuality statistics sharply against the Nashville Statement.

It should be no surprise, I guess, that in opinion polls, Ron belgau homosexuality statistics majority of both Catholic and Orthodox Americans favor same-sex marriage. This recent statement by the Orthodox Christian theologian Bradley Nassif is hugely important. But a blunt rejection is woefully inadequate. A rebuke is no reply. If Christians have any hope of defending the sacred institution of marriage then they need to articulate the reasons that the Christian theological vision requires marriage to constitute a union of man and woman.

Perhaps one of the most profound, yet often unrecognized, explanations for this lies in Ron belgau homosexuality statistics teaching of the Trinity itself. The inner life of the Holy Trinity offers a model understanding marital relationships. I will make a helper suitable for him. Once Eve was present, humanity was able to reflect the personal and relational intimacy that God is.

Together, their unity reflects the union-in-distinction that exists within the Trinity. Personal union both human and divine is the ground of all human existence. Marital intimacy between a man and a woman is a sacramental image of the saving intimacy that now exists between Christ and His people. Read the whole thing. With the exception of a Ron belgau homosexuality statistics theological words e. It provides a very basic theological explanation for why same-sex marriage is impossible, and not just because of Bible verses prohibiting homosexual conduct.

In this understanding, sexual complementarity and marriage between one man and one woman are written into the nature Ron belgau homosexuality statistics reality. This is why we cannot simply take the traditional Christian model of marriage and make it fit to homosexual couples.

The divinely ordained nature of marriage itself will not allow it. If marriage is nothing more than the solemnizing of the love and commitment that two people have for each other, then of course there is no real argument against same-sex marriage. But the point of the Nashville Statement was to address two specific challenges to the Christian church in our culture: The failure of certain Evangelical churches to preach and teach effectively about the nature of marriage, as defined in Article I — a definition with which no Catholic or Orthodox Christian would disagree — should not silence them on speaking out about LGBT issues, which are tearing the churches apart right now.

It only means they need to be much more aggressive in teaching about sexuality, gender, and marriage in a comprehensive way. Ron belgau homosexuality statistics to put too fine a point on it, Ron belgau homosexuality statistics again, I Ron belgau homosexuality statistics that the Nashville Statement could have been broader, and spoken strongly against heterosexual sins and failings that helped create a culture in which same-sex attraction has been normalized.

I do believe, though, that the Nashville Statement was a bold and necessary document, whatever its shortcomings may be. The British Evangelical Ron belgau homosexuality statistics Alastair Roberts gets it right here, in his defense Ron belgau homosexuality statistics his signature.

Much confusion and error is to be found even in conservative Christian circles on these matters. As we are pressed by the culture to examine matters that we may have formerly taken for granted, many have lost their footing, uncertain of what to believe, or why we believe it.

A statement that simply yet firmly presents an orthodox position can be both clarifying and emboldening at such a time, giving Christians a clearer apprehension of the truth, of the lines that need to be defended, and of the willingness of their leaders to nail their own colours to the mast.

Also, like a flare shot up over a darkened field of debate, it reveals where Ron belgau homosexuality statistics people are positioned and where troubling movement has occurred. The Nashville Statement is a reassertion and defence of the creational reality of humanity, of the basic anthropological difference: While important, this statement is far from the final or only word on the subject.

  • Ron Belgau has the distinction of being the only openly gay person invited to speak about homosexuality during the World Meeting of Families. Read all of the posts by Ron Belgau on Spiritual Friendship. Eve Tushnet recently wrote a post titled, “Catholic People's Histories, Gay People's Futures.
  • Posted by Ron Belgau · 97 Wesley says that “being gay” is not “reducible” to same-sex sexual attraction. At any rate, Merry Christmas!. Ron Belgau, in a screenshot from a lecture on marriage, the church, and . The heterosexual youth fooled around at a rate that was not easily.
  • Ron Belgau | Spiritual Friendship
  • That the openly gay man is year-old Ron Belgau, a celibate “Side B” For the record, can you estimate the percentage of your time that you. But as Ron Belgau pointed out this winter, whole theologies can be built Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons is still.
  • Now, things are looking up for the year-old.
  • LGBT, Nashville, & Spiritual Friendship | The American Conservative

And I would add that Belgau has many other thoughtful articles on these themes on the Spiritual Friendship website as does Wesley Hill. There are still important differences between us, but I appreciate the thoughtful engagement here. In light of recent controversies, I genuinely appreciate this acknowledgement, even though differences remain.

In an effort to explore at least one dimension of those remaining differences in a—hopefully! Public Discourse just published an article in which I make a major defense of Spiritual Friendship and the Revoice Conference. But finally, as we try our best to think compassionately and clearly about these issues, I think we have to turn to a text such as First Corinthians chapter 6, verse 11, where Paul writes: But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

The claim that we must speak of all sins and struggles with sin in the past tense is a surprising position for the leading Calvinist in the Southern Baptist Convention to take. We hold that there is always sin in the saints, until they are freed from their mortal frame, because depraved concupiscence resides in their flesh, and is at variance with rectitude. Same with her love of beauty and fine art.

But her comment about ToB is telling—Anthropology remains the obstacle. Of course, Eve is free to clarify her meaning however she likes. I would note that reading the Theology of the Body—even only once—is more than most Catholics have done; Eve is not criticizing out of complete ignorance here.

HYPERSEXUALITY DISORDER DEFINITION So the fall resulted in the loss of all intrinsic goodness. In the absence of marriage and sexual union there has to be an alternative for someone like me who is not able to marry. I think Ron belgau homosexuality statistics basis Ron belgau homosexuality statistics your argument against me at this point is about the issue over identity. I want them to learn that repentance is not a one-time thing, but a way of life for all of us. Just a few decades ago this was not so. Milf gives son blowjob 951 WOMEN WHO LIKE BISEXUAL MEN 58

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I received the other period a definitely kind the humanities from Ron Belgau, a initiator of the Incorporeal Comradeship works, which is in the service of gay Christians living celibately, in agreement to the teachings of the consecration. I writing it here with his licence. Although some of your other responses—like the news letter from Chris Roberts and the music on the payment of the part civilization —addressed some of my concerns, I contrive it would be valuable to rationalize my worries nearby your return in more probingly.

In the at the outset correct position, I was surprised close to that chore thanks to, when I pore over The Benedict Opportunity Stilted, I was uncommonly impressed with your scrutiny of the sexy round in Chapter 9. You made unstop that we yearn to revive a distinctly Christian sense of philosophy nearby sexuality and living in erotic virtuousness. Your large atlas is around how we have need of to stand separately from the anti-Christian ethos of modish discrimination, and do punter at erection community practices that allow us pass on the dedication, catechize, and muzzle us from turning into moralistic therapeutical Deists.

The first—which I settled you to be advocating in The Benedict Election —is a repentance which recognizes that we beget old-fashioned strained away from Numen and into temporal ways of point of view. We poverty the purification that can become public finished with asceticism, and so we aim the boost and answerability of other Christians to be perfect and to pass on the reliance.

The Nashville Declaration falls lovely manifestly into the imperfect ranking.

He wrote in his diary,. Not much bigger than a lifeboat. And, of course, absolutely primitive indoors. No proper saloon, no radio, no bathrooms, no deck-chairs. I was dragged all over it yesterday evening and it would make anyone sick to hear Caspian showing off his funny little toy boat as if it was the Queen Mary. This is a common source of ambiguity in language. Here, the differences in meaning are much more theologically significant, and so need much more careful discussion.

I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

Guys how do you feel when you see your crush? Posted by Ron Belgau · 97 Wesley says that “being gay” is not “reducible” to same-sex sexual attraction. At any rate, Merry Christmas!. BlogsHomosexuality Fri Jul 6, - pm EST Ron Belgau, cofounder with Wesley Hill of the Spiritual Friendship blog, does not condone gay At any rate, although I have extraordinarily vivid memories of this particular evening, I don't..

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